Life's Work: An Interview with Robin Wright

人生之作--访罗宾·赖特

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A dancer at 10, a model at 14, and a soap opera actor at 18, Wright catapulted to stardom in the film The Princess Bride at age 21. Marriage and children followed, and although she prioritized family over films for many years, she still squeezed in several acclaimed performances. In 2013, she signed on to play Claire Underwood in Netflix’s show House of Cards, helping to launch the streaming TV era. Now she directs and acts and is a cofounder of Pour Les Femmes, a social enterprise that supports women in conflict zones around the world.

赖特10岁当舞蹈家，14岁当模特，18岁当肥皂剧演员，21岁时在电影《公主新娘》中一跃成为明星。婚姻和孩子接踵而至，尽管多年来她将家庭置于电影之上，但她还是挤进了几场广受好评的演出。2013年，她签约在Netflix的电视剧《纸牌屋》中饰演克莱尔·安德伍德，帮助开启了流媒体电视时代。现在，她担任导演和演戏，并与人共同创办了Pour Les Femmes，这是一个支持世界各地冲突地区妇女的社会企业。

HBR: What was it like to start your career at such a young age?

HBR：这么年轻就开始职业生涯是什么感觉？

Wright: I was a dancer first. I really believed that I was going to go be in the chorus line on Broadway. But I also couldn’t wait to get out of America and explore the world. I did some traveling, and when I got to Paris I thought, “I don’t want to leave,” so I did that modeling thing. It was the only way to pay rent. I got signed by a modeling agency, and I ended up staying nearly a year. I didn’t go to college. I grew up with beautiful strangers.

赖特：我最初是个舞者。我真的相信我会去百老汇的合唱队。但我也迫不及待地想走出美国，去探索世界。我做了一些旅行，当我到了巴黎，我想，“我不想离开，”所以我做了模特的事情。这是支付房租的唯一方法。我被一家模特经纪公司签了约，结果我待了将近一年。我没上过大学。我和漂亮的陌生人一起长大。

Is there anything you wish you could tell your younger self?

你有什么想对年轻时的自己说的吗？

I wish everyone could have the confidence at that age to build a boundary bubble. You’ll inevitably get scars from other people—because you’re young, naive, vulnerable. So you really have to know: What is your direction? What is your purpose? What do you want to do?

我希望每个人都能在那个年龄有信心去建立一个边界泡沫。你不可避免地会受到别人的伤害--因为你年轻，天真，脆弱。所以你真的要知道：你的方向是什么？你的目的是什么？你想做什么？

What did you learn early on that still serves you today?

你从早期学到的什么东西至今仍为你服务？

On Santa Barbara, we were sometimes doing 18-hour days, and it was an hour-plus drive home, so I often just slept in my dressing room at NBC Studios. You had to manage your time, your sanity, and your immune system. But what I really learned was the technical side of performing. We worked with three cameras at all times. How do you not only remember your lines but also when you need to turn a bit to the left to favor camera one or at which line you need to face camera three. At that age, I was also working with older, experienced actors and watching and learning from them.

在圣巴巴拉，我们有时一天工作18个小时，开车回家要一个多小时，所以我经常睡在NBC演播室的更衣室里。你必须管理好你的时间，你的理智和你的免疫系统。但我真正学到的是表演的技术层面。我们一直用三台摄像机工作。你如何不仅记住你的台词，而且还记得当你需要向左转一点以偏向一号摄影机时，或者在哪条线上你需要面对三号摄影机时。在那个年龄，我也在与年长的，经验丰富的演员合作，观看并向他们学习。

When you got your big break with The Princess Bride, some of your costars were legends of the stage and screen. Did that make you nervous? How did you prepare?

当你和公主新娘有了大突破时，你的一些合作演员都是舞台和银幕上的传奇人物。这让你紧张了吗？你是怎么准备的？

I was very nervous. Thankfully I grew up with a British stepfather, so I could master the accent, otherwise it would have been really daunting. But I remember feeling the need to prepare for every scene—go into my quiet space, play music, get ready. You’re so worried about not achieving perfection. When you’ve done it for 30 years, you grow up and beyond that. It’s almost like you can flip a switch. The greatest gift is failing—failing in a scene, in front of the camera, and then tightening up your bootlaces, putting your head up, and going in and trying again. It was on that shoot that I got the bug. I loved doing film. It was so collaborative at the time. And working with these icons—legendary directors, producers, actors—I just kept taking it in like a sponge.

我当时很紧张。谢天谢地，我是和一个英国继父一起长大的，所以我能掌握口音，否则真的会让人望而生畏。但我记得感觉到需要为每一个场景做准备--走进我安静的空间，放音乐，做好准备。你很担心不能做到完美。当你做了30年之后，你就长大了。就像你能按开关一样。最伟大的礼物就是失败--在一个场景中，在镜头前失败，然后收紧你的鞋带，抬起头，进去再试一次。就是在那次拍摄中我感染了窃听器。我喜欢拍电影。那时候是如此的合作。和这些偶像一起工作--传奇导演，制片人，演员--我只是像海绵一样不断地接受。

What are the interpersonal dynamics on a film set like? How do you build trust and creative chemistry with cast and crew members whom you haven’t necessarily worked with before?

电影场景中的人际动态是怎样的？你如何与以前没有合作过的演职人员建立信任和创造性的化学反应？

I think it’s respectful to just sit back, observe, listen, and allow yourself to be accepted. When you’re entering a set where people have worked together in the past, you’re walking into a family unit. And when it’s a new group, it also takes some work. You need to have patience and humility.

我认为坐下来，观察，倾听，让自己被接受是一种尊重。当你进入一个人们过去曾一起工作过的场景时，你就像走进了一个家庭单元。如果是一个新的团队，也需要一些工作。你需要有耐心和谦逊。

Hollywood’s not an industry known for patience and humility. How do you navigate that?

好莱坞不是一个以耐心和谦逊著称的行业。你怎么驾驭它？

The most important thing when you’re directing is to show kindness. It creates an energy on the set, where anyone can say, “I don’t know the answer to that question. Let’s have a discussion. Let’s collaborate. You bring your ideas to the table. I’ll bring mine. And let’s decide what’s best for the project.”

当你导演的时候，最重要的是表现出善意。它在片场创造了一种能量，在那里任何人都可以说，“我不知道那个问题的答案。我们来讨论一下。我们合作吧。你把你的想法摆到桌面上。我带我的来。让我们来决定什么对这个项目是最好的。“

Can an actor create that environment too?

演员也能创造这样的环境吗？

You can certainly try. I love working with people in that way because they show you things that you might never see. We’re all architects of the building. It’s curious to me that they say, “directed by.” A film or show isn’t directed by one person. It’s directed by everybody.

你当然可以试试。我喜欢用这种方式与人合作，因为他们向你展示了你可能从未见过的东西。我们都是大楼的建筑师。我很好奇他们说“导演”。一部电影或节目不是由一个人导演的。这是所有人都导演的。

After big hits like The Princess Bride and Forrest Gump, how did you think about next steps?

在《公主新娘》和《阿甘正传》这样的热门影片之后，你是如何考虑下一步的？

There was some pressure: Stay in the game, or you will be forgotten. But I chose not to adhere to that, because I had a long-term vision. I knew I wanted to act until I couldn’t anymore, so I needed to be selective. Where are you in your life, spiritually and mentally, when projects come your way? Do you connect with material? I would see what resonated. Acting is such an emotional job. It’s almost like going to therapy every day, because you’re dissecting and embodying a character and getting to the depths of who that person is. There were some roles that I didn’t feel I was ready to take on. I knew somebody else would be so much better.

有一些压力：留在游戏里，否则你会被遗忘。但我选择不坚持，因为我有长远的眼光。我知道我想演戏，直到我不能再演戏了，所以我需要有所选择。当项目来到你的身边时，你在你的生活中处于什么位置，精神上和心理上？你和物质有联系吗？我想看看是什么引起了共鸣。演戏是一份情绪化的工作。这几乎就像每天去做心理治疗，因为你在解剖和体现一个角色，深入了解这个人的本质。有些角色我觉得自己还没准备好去演。我就知道别人会更好。

But shouldn’t you challenge yourself sometimes? Say “I’m not ready, but I’ll try anyway”?

但你不应该有时候挑战一下自己吗？说“我还没准备好，但无论如何我会努力的”？

That came very late, well into my 40s. You know, you’re typecast a lot in this industry, and for so many years, while I was raising my kids and choosing to do one project a year at most, I was always cast as the pained, soulful woman. But I did want to break out of that box, and House of Cards was the catalyst. Claire Underwood was the most venal character. She couldn’t have been more of a departure for me.

那是很晚的事，到了我40多岁。你知道，你在这个行业里被塑造了很多类型，这么多年来，当我抚养我的孩子，选择一年最多做一个项目的时候，我总是被塑造成一个痛苦的，有灵魂的女人。但我确实想突破这个框框，《纸牌屋》就是催化剂。克莱尔·安德伍德是最贪赃枉法的人物。她对我来说简直是一种离别。

Ages 20 to 40 are prime time for female actors. Why did you decide to prioritize family over work during that period?

20到40岁是女演员的黄金时段。为什么在那个时期你决定把家庭置于工作之上？

That was a no-brainer. I always wanted to be a mom, and my kids came first. Of course, I often got the message that I should do more. But I think it’s nice to keep people wanting.

这是一个无需考虑的问题。我一直想当妈妈，我的孩子是第一位的。当然，我经常得到的信息是，我应该做更多。但我觉得让人们继续想要是件好事。

And then, when your children were grown, came House of Cards. David Fincher has said he had to beg you to take the role of Claire. Why was it a hard sell? And what finally convinced you?

然后，当你的孩子们长大了，《纸牌屋》就来了。大卫·芬奇说他不得不求你来演克莱尔这个角色。为什么这么难卖？最后是什么说服了你？

I didn’t want to do television. I’d been stuck on Santa Barbara for years and remembered how hard it was to do those long hours and memorize 10 to 15 pages of dialogue a day. I loved film. I loved that you got to travel and experience other cultures and play different characters instead of being stuck with one. But David said, “Trust me. This is going to be revolutionary. You will have 13 hours to tell your story, and people will have the choice to watch it whenever they choose.” I said, “But what about the part? She’s basically the governor’s arm candy, and it doesn’t really interest me to just be a politician’s wife.” And he said, “No. We’re going to build this character together. She’ll ultimately become Lady Macbeth to his Richard III.” I trust him so much. I love his taste, his movies, his mind. So I said, “OK, let’s go.”

我不想做电视。我在圣塔芭芭拉呆了好几年，记得每天长时间背诵10到15页的对话是多么困难。我喜欢电影。我喜欢你去旅行，体验其他文化，扮演不同的角色，而不是被一个角色困住。但大卫说：“相信我。这将是革命性的。你将有13个小时的时间讲述你的故事，人们可以选择在他们选择的任何时候观看它。“我说，”但那部分呢？她基本上是州长的宠儿，我对仅仅做一个政客的妻子并不感兴趣，“他说，”不。我们要一起打造这个角色。她最终会成为他的理查三世的麦克白夫人。“我太信任他了。我喜欢他的品味，他的电影，他的思想。所以我说：“好吧，我们走吧。”

How did you start directing episodes?

你是怎么开始导演剧集的？

The producers and the showrunners asked me: “Would you like to do it?” I was scared out of my wits, of course, but I had an incredible crew. Our camera operator had been shooting movies for more than 37 years, and he was like, “I’ve got your back. You’re going to learn as you do it.” It was such a gift that I started directing on that show. I felt really safe.

制片人和制作人问我：“你愿意做吗？”当然，我被吓得魂不附体，但我有一个令人难以置信的剧组。我们的摄影师已经拍了超过37年的电影，他说：“我支持你。你会边做边学，“这是我开始执导这部剧的天赋。我觉得很安全。

After the abuse allegations against Kevin Spacey and his departure, how did you and the rest of the team figure out your path forward?

在凯文·史派西受到虐待指控并离开之后，你和球队的其他成员是如何找到前进的道路的？

Because the climate was so hot at that time, we shut down. We took off almost two months and deliberated: “Should we resume or shut down permanently?” We decided that we wanted to give the fans a close to the show and, equally important, keep our crew and actors employed. We couldn’t just pull the rug out and say, “I know you were paying for your kid’s college tuition, but sorry.” To finish was the right thing to do.

因为当时气候太热了，我们停工了。我们起飞了将近两个月，然后考虑：“我们应该恢复还是永久关闭？”我们决定，我们想让影迷们接近这部剧，同样重要的是，让我们的工作人员和演员继续工作。我们不能只是扯开地毯说：“我知道你在付你孩子的大学学费，但对不起。”结束是正确的做法。

As you stepped in the lead role, what kind of pressure did you feel personally?

当你踏入主角的角色时，你个人感受到了什么样的压力？

It wasn’t really pressure. It was just more work. It flowed. It was like, “OK. Keep your strength, because you’re going to finish this puppy off.” And ironically, the storyline didn’t shift that much, because we were always going to be separate in that last season. She was going to go be president, and he was going to join the private sector.

其实不是压力。只是更多的工作。它流淌着。就像是，“好吧。保持你的力量，因为你会把这只小狗干掉，“讽刺的是，故事情节并没有发生太大的变化，因为我们在最后一季总是要分开的。她将成为总统，而他将加入私营部门。

How did you decide what to do next?

你是怎么决定下一步要做什么的？

By the end I just loved directing, especially seeing actors evolve. You give them a note, and they just transform right in front of you. It’s so invigorating. And I really wanted to do more of that.

到最后，我只是喜欢导演，尤其是看演员的成长。你给他们一张纸条，他们就在你面前变身了。太振奋人心了。我真的很想做更多的事情。

You recently directed and acted in a feature film, Land. Did that larger-scale project feel scarier?

你最近自导自演了一部故事片《大地》。那个规模更大的项目是不是感觉更恐怖？

Not really. I had such an incredible team of producers, who, again, have been in the business for 20 or 30 years. And when everybody knows their job so well, you’ve got them as a backbone. Especially when you’re directing yourself and can’t always be just behind the camera, you have to trust in those people around you and know that they have the same vision as you do for the project.

不是真的。我有这样一个令人难以置信的制片人团队，他们在这个行业已经有二三十年了。当每个人都很了解自己的工作时，你就有了他们作为主心骨。尤其是当你在指导自己的时候，你不能总是站在镜头后面的时候，你必须相信你周围的人，并且知道他们和你对这个项目有相同的看法。

There’s a big push for more diversity in Hollywood—not just in casting but also in assembling crews. The #MeToo movement has also made waves throughout the industry. As a female director, do you feel like the power dynamics are changing?

好莱坞正在大力推动更多的多元化--不仅是在选角方面，而且在组员方面也是如此。#MeToo运动也在整个行业掀起波澜。作为一个女导演，你有没有感觉到权力动态在发生变化？

I do. Is it because the industry was pressured to change? Of course. But the crack is in the ceiling, and we just have to keep pushing, amplifying our voices, staying in the game.

我有。是因为业界受到压力而改变吗？当然了。但裂缝就在天花板上，我们只需要不断地推进，放大声音，留在游戏中。

Your other passion project is supporting women in the Congo and other conflict zones through your foundation and loungewear business, Pour Les Femmes. Why start a social enterprise?

你的另一个激情项目是通过你的基金会和休闲装公司Pour Les Femmes支持刚果和其他冲突地区的妇女。为什么要创办社会企业？

Over 10 years ago, I was informed about the crisis in the Congo and the fact that it’s connected to the minerals used in our technological devices. I was flabbergasted. In and around these mines, the militias take over. They recruit the men. They rape the women. They leave them for dead. I felt a civic responsibility. I’m on the cell phone all day, and it’s carrying coltan, which is what the militias are after. I finally went to visit some of these women who had been rescued to hear their stories and ask them what they needed. And they said, “We need a voice because no one hears us. Nobody knows what’s going on. Companies are buying these minerals, and it’s perpetuating this problem.”

十多年前，我得知刚果的危机和我们的技术设备中使用的矿物有关。我大吃一惊。在这些矿场及其周围，民兵接管了这些矿场。他们招募士兵。他们强奸女人。他们让他们等死。我感到一种公民责任。我整天都在打手机，手机里装的是钶钽铁矿石，那是民兵要找的东西。我最后去拜访了其中一些获救的妇女，听听她们的故事，问她们需要什么。他们说：“我们需要一个声音，因为没有人听见我们。没人知道怎么回事。很多公司都在购买这些矿物，这使这个问题永久化，“

I was working on House of Cards at the time, very close to Washington, DC, so I would take the train up and try to get in to see Hillary Clinton, who was then Secretary of State. I wanted her to get protection on the ground for these women, enforce transparent sourcing for every electronics company, clean up other dirty trade, like blood diamonds, but I just wasn’t getting anywhere. So one of my oldest friends, Karen Fowler, who is a designer and has a clothing line, said, “Why don’t we do a sleepwear line”—because we love pajamas and couldn’t find our perfect ones on the market—“and make it a give-back company, where part of the proceeds go to these civil society groups that bring women in and give them vocational skill training and psychological help?”

当时我正在拍摄《纸牌屋》，离华盛顿特区很近，所以我会坐火车上去，试着去见时任国务卿的希拉里·克林顿。我想让她为这些女性提供保护，为每个电子公司实施透明的采购，清理其他肮脏的交易，比如血钻，但我没有取得任何进展。因此，我的一位老朋友，设计师凯伦·福勒说，“我们为什么不做一个睡衣系列”--因为我们喜欢睡衣，但在市场上找不到最完美的--“把它做成一个回馈性的公司，把部分收益捐给那些把女性引入公司，给她们提供职业技能培训和心理帮助的民间社会团体。”凯伦·福勒是一位服装品牌设计师，她说：“我们为什么不做一个睡衣系列呢？”

That’s how it began—as a way to amplify the voices of the Congolese women and give them work. We wanted every person who purchased our sleepwear to know that they were helping a woman in need. We also focused on being sustainable because fashion is one of the most wasteful industries. We’re doing biodegradable plastic garment bags and recyclable shipping packages. We practice fair trade. We have workshops, not huge factories, and we have quality control people on the ground making sure that there’s no corruption, no child labor, everything is clean.

它就是这样开始的--作为一种扩大刚果妇女的声音并为她们提供工作的方式。我们希望每一个购买我们睡衣的人都知道他们在帮助一个有需要的妇女。我们还关注可持续发展，因为时尚业是最浪费的行业之一。我们正在生产可生物降解的塑料服装袋和可回收的运输包装。我们实行公平交易。我们有车间，不是大工厂，我们有质量控制人员在现场确保没有腐败，没有童工，一切都是干净的。

How involved do you get in the business?

你对这项业务的参与程度如何？

I design with Karen, every season. And then she’s on the workshop floor, and I’m out talking about it.

我和凯伦一起设计，每个季节。然后她就在车间里，而我却在外面谈论这件事。

How do you measure success?

你如何衡量成功？

I think it’s always been to not buy into what society tells you—like “If you leave and don’t do a movie a year, you’re done.” Just no. If you have belief in yourself, that energy, you do it your way. And I just always felt that in my bones. Maybe having children at such a young age helped. I knew they were the priority, so everything else followed from there.

我认为人们总是不相信社会告诉你的--比如“如果你离开，一年不拍一部电影，你就完蛋了”。如果你相信自己，相信自己的能量，你就会按照自己的方式去做。我只是从骨子里感觉到。也许在这么小的时候就有孩子是有帮助的。我知道他们是第一位的，所以其他的事情都是从那里开始的。